Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

Hola fellow GIM'ers. I've been lurking here for several weeks and got the chance to join recently so I did. Aside from opening my eyes to PM ownership as of late, I'm beginning to formulate a strategy to get the hell out of Dodge, so to speak.

Currently I'm in the desert southwest suburbia of the US. Not that I completely dislike it, I just don't see sustainability as a long-term option. The wife and I are looking to purchase property soon to use as a getaway with the intent to eventually make our homestead. I guess my first step is the actual property procurement, so I'm soliciting advise on buying acreage. So far we are partial to southern Colorado/northern New Mexico for it's natural beauty and climate, and similarly (but different?) Southern Oregon, although nothing is set in stone yet, we are partial to foothills, mountains and big spaces. I've been following land auction, buy land sites, ebay, etc for quite some time now, but mostly as a "one day I'd love to..." Now I'm getting serious and I have the better half on board. So pertaining to land acquisition:

-Potential pitfalls
-Finance or pay cash?
-Common scams?
-Successes and horror stories?
-On grid, plan for off-grid?

I'm not a completely clueless suburbanite, I've worked hard before, and have gardening skills, but I'm looking to eventually become self sufficient or as close as possible. We're looking in the 5-20 acre range, price depending. I can raise the cash and keep working to finance the rest of the homestead until the time comes to leave town. Any advice you can offer up would be greatly appreciated.

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

Research online and use the Google Maps street view to tour the subject area.

:smile:

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

Excellent! Thanks for the info. I've already started the homework, but there's only so much I can uncover on my own. Thanks again.

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

I live in Denver and lately there has been a commercial for 250 acres of land in northern New Mexico for $100k (might be $95k).

I'll listen a little more closely next week as I'm listening to talk radio and write down the website.

To be honest, it's probably high desert type of land, though one never knows in this economy. It could easily be a land developer about to go under.

Either way, WATER will be an issue. Most desert land has ZERO water. Quite unlike what you experience in Oregon, even the southern portion.

But I will post the info here in case you or anyone else wants it.

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

Southern colo has some relatively affordable land west and south of Pueblo (Sangre de Cristo ranges). Problem is it is mostly flat and dry, or in the hills and DRY. If you can get somewhere where there is water, up near some of the mountains in the foothills, it gets pricey quickly. Pitfalls that I am aware of is water and whether you can drill for a well and get it/how deep/how much it costs, utilities (how far off the road to get electric run (if you need that) and of course, banks don't tend to loan money on land. Also, you pay taxes on unimproved land that can quickly erode it's value. Watch out in southern colorado for mineral rights. Most of the properties do not own their mineral rights and so there are a lot of folks on land that find out they are going to be sitting next to a natural gas wellhead like it or not. And don't go thinking about drilling your own, it's not your gas.

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

Check into the cost of running power into any undeveloped site.

This can run into a lot of $$ if you're talking about several hundred feet or more.

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

All of the above is true.

Water is the big issue.

Power? You can always address that fairly easily. Not CHEAPLY mind you, but you don't HAVE to be attached to the grid to live.

But no water IS the biggest issue.

I had a friend who lived north of Golden and the well only drew about 10 gallons of water per day. Not an hour, per day.

She had water delivered. About 3000 gallons a month and none of it potable. But you would be surprised how much water you need to wash clothes, flush the toilet, take showers, etc... Especially for three people. Then there was the keeping the kennels clean, etc...

Oh, and having a natural gas well on your property MIGHT be a good thing in SHTF scenario. How many people will be out to see if the gas that is flowing to them drops a MINOR amount? NONE, that's how many during SHTF sceario.

But again, WATER is the big deal.

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

If you are going to New Mexico and want a shot at having your own water, you will have to go into the mountains. There are places up there where there is abundant hunting, sweet shallow water and you can still drill a well sans meter on less than an acre of land. I would suggest however, that you have more than an acre.

The population is sparse and you will find the other occasional survivalist as well. I'm moving up there, this week in fact, to caretake a hunting lodge while I scout for my land.

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

If you are planning on moving to northern New Mexico, make sure to avoid Hispanic enclaves unless of course you are Hispanic. There are still diehard La Raza folks in north central NM who don't like whites buying up their land that they think was granted to them hundreds of years ago. Like Reyes Lopez Tijerina. Think Penitentes. Whites moving into those areas used to be burned out as recently as several years ago.

A friend of Italian extraction lived and worked up there as a dentist many years ago. He was a respected member of the community...until they found out he wasn't Hispanic. Came home one day to find his house burned to the ground.

Don't know how hostile towards gringoes they are today, but I would stick closer to white communities...

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

Oregon is very green, at least in the western part of the state. So you wouldn't have to be to concerned about water. I'm kind of in the same boat as you. Looking to get some acreage in the next year or so. :banana:
I'm mostly checking in Oregon, and Washington for the greenery, but I haven't shut out other places with precipitation, forests, greenery scenery etc.
Here's a link that might help. It shows precipitation maps of the states, agriculture, elevations etc. Good Luck. :emotions16:http://www.classbrain.com/artstate/p..._reports.shtml

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

I heard somewhere that the average American uses 144 gallons of water per day on average. I was floored when I heard that, but between shower, washing hands, flushing the toilet, watering the lawn, etc it adds up. Our water bills seem to match up closely to these figures.

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

Thats because we're spoiled.

A person should be able to get by with 10% of that if that time came...and probably less.

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

I agree that people should be able to get by with much much less, but 10% of that amount seems low. Are you going to not flush the toilet more than once a day? What about items that need water when cooking? What about water for drinking? What about water for the dogs if you have them? What about water for washing your hands? All of those little things add up over the course of a day.

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

Have all the water you want with one of these!

http://image.lehmans.com/lehmans/Ima.../bphfamily.jpg

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

Yeah, I think I heard that same commercial too, on Friday. It definitely got my attention. It's the first time I've ever heard a radio commercial like that for raw real estate. I'm not certain but I think it was for 300 or 320 acres for $99k.:biggrin:

Actually it did sound like a great property, (currently I'd rather put the money into a house on say 10 acres rather than that much raw land.)

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

It's River Watch at Stone Mountain Ranch near Roy, New Mexico.

Here is the link for that land.

$99,500 for 250 acres...

http://www.newmexicolandandranches.n...emountain.html

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

I would be careful with New Mexico Land and Ranches (assuming they are the same company as Arizona Land and Ranches). All of the properties offered by AZ Land and Ranches are part of a Home Owners Association (I guess a Land Owners Association) that you have to pay into. I researched some land in AZ offered by them and found out quickly it wasn't anything close to what I wanted.

There were no mineral rights with the land, it was part of an HOA, and the DNR water report was not good (though it may be better for that land in NM) Arizona of course didn't have a 100 year supply, and it was 2000' down.

Just letting you know, the websites look identical so I'm sure its the same company. Not sure all their property is like the one I looked at, but just warning you to make sure you know what you're getting into with them.

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

Yes, I think a person can get by with 14 gallons or less a day even after using water for the things you mentioned.

As for flushing the toilet, if the SHTF and there was a water shortage, flushing the toilet everytime you have to relieve yourself will be the last thing on your mind.

You can survive without the usage of a water flushing toilet.

This goes back to what I mentioned about us being spoiled.

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

From looking through some sites on Google, they are saying a person can survive with 1-2 gallons of water a day...that would be rough but its certainly doable.

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

Thanks all for the valuable information.

I've looked at the "Land and ranches" websites. There's also one for NV, and I believe they are all run by the same company, and similarly are part of some association with a fee schedule.

So far I'm still intrigued by some websites or ebay that are offering land at auction. The most important consideration is the water rights I guess at this point. I'm in an arid climate and familiar with conservation as a lifestyle. Hell, back when I was in the Navy I think we were allotted 5 gallons per day including shower water. We had a showerhead that was operated by pushbutton and spring-loaded faucets so it made things easy.

I did not consider the mineral rights issue, especially the natural gas aspect. Thanks for the heads up.

I was hoping I could uncover a success story of somebody purchasing auctioned land and have yet to experience buyer's remorse.

Thanks again!

Re: Planning to get out of the city...advise plea
 

According to the site below Americans use 152 gallons/day (575 litres/day).

Compare with Kenya and Bangladesh, which use 12 gallons/day (46 litres/day).

But I think all those figures are deceptively high because they include water used for industrial and commercial purposes. It would be interesting to see the amount of water consumed at home by individuals.

http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=757